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Jan 13, 2026 I used Premier to enhance the audio a little and render the captions - otherwise this is unedited. This is all 6 parts in order. William Sascha Riley interviews - unedited -full audio William Riley Sasha Riley outlaws of chivalry https://lisevoldeng.substack.com/p/do... TRANSRIPT 6:59 mean I`m not a movie star so obviously that`s a very odd question and I knew exactly what he was talking about when 7:05 he said that. So I said yes. So he said, "Okay, well, 7:11 we have found some images that are of a sexually explicit nature on another soldier`s uh computer, I think. Um, 7:22 and they look like you." And I said, "Well, they are me." So he said, "And 7:27 you look underage." I think from that uh was part of their investigation to 7:33 confirm that the images of the uh the participants in these films were 7:39 underage. So you know that was just a a secondary 7:44 verification that uh yeah I was only 12 or 13 at the time of that film maybe 7:50 maybe even 11. So I mean obviously I`m not an adult and even when I was an 7:56 adult at 18 or 19 I still looked young. So obviously at uh 11 12 whatever I was 8:03 in that film I would not have looked like a a mature uh an adult you know. 8:11 So it was more I think for confirmation that these images were of children. So, 8:18 uh, I don`t remember if he actually got court marshaled or if he just got, uh, 8:24 UCMJ, which has just been a lower grade of, uh, punishment, but I do know that 8:29 he was chaptered out of the military over it. He might have 8:34 had to do a little jail time, but I don`t tell I can`t even recall the soldier`s name 8:40 that got caught with it. I just knew he was a an NCO, a staff sergeant. 8:46 And was there any did anyone else ever talk to you about the the films again? 8:52 Did they ever talk did they ever infer that there was any further investigation 8:58 in terms to when the films were produced? Did they ask you anything about who is involved or did they 9:05 No. No. uh they they didn`t they didn`t go into any legality other than uh the 9:12 prosecution of the soldier with the images. So, Louisiana military is a little bit different than than civilian uh you know 9:20 I don`t want to call it the court system because it`s just the the the officers and NCOs`s in the military but they they 9:28 have their you know sphere of influence they have their little scope of operation and and if they uncover I 9:35 think that they are in uh required to give it to the civilian authorities but they don`t have any jurisdiction to go 9:41 farther than to just prosecute the soldier not the infraction that he is 9:46 guilty of. If that makes sense the way I`m saying it. No, I understand. Do they have any duty 9:53 or any is there any legality or do they have legal requirements to in to inform 10:00 civilian prosecutors and such cases? 10:05 if if they suspect or I if there is 10:10 additional money doing that is outside of their scope of of of being able to 10:16 prosecute in in this case to to hold the individual soldier accountable for having this material that he`s not 10:23 supposed to have. Yeah. Uh they prosecute that portion of it. If it is beyond what they can prosecute, 10:30 then they refer the soldier to civilian court systems. Um, but in this case, the 10:37 military did uh handle the uh uh the 10:42 prosecution of the soldier and I I think all he got was like 30 days 10:48 uh and and reduction in rank to E1. They kicked him out of the arm and gave him a 10:54 less than audible discharge. I think I don`t think he even got a bad conduct for that. 10:59 But uh it, you know, I know that he was put out of the military. And I think he did the 30 days in jail, 11:07 I think, is the most that they can give you at the uh um at that at the level 11:13 that they that they prosecuted him at. So, um I don`t I`m I`m not saying that 11:20 they uh you know, for sure on the on the jail time, but I do know for a fact he was he was put out of the military. 11:26 Okay. So, they they they had films. They had some of those forms. Okay. 11:32 Cable. Yes. Cable. That was his last name. H A B E L I think. Staff Sergeant Ael. I 11:39 just remembered it because I could picture his face and I just couldn`t remember his name. 11:44 Ael. Okay. H A B E L. Yes, I`m relatively certain on that 11:50 name. I I don`t have the best memory. I was in a blast in Iraq and one of the things 11:57 that I struggle with mightily are names. Yeah. But I I`m fairly sure that`s his day. 12:04 Okay. Okay. And in terms of the films they had, so so there there was obviously a 12:11 collection of pornography. any is there anyone you`re in contact with of those 12:16 your commanding officers that would they talk to you? Would they provide evidence 12:22 or is it a situation Michael Bis is the only one that I 12:29 remember speaking to about it. I have not spoken to him since I left Fort Carson in 2011. 12:37 Um, I would think that he would probably remember something like that just just 12:43 the unusualness of it. You know, first sergeants deal with things day in and 12:49 day out, but I would I would think that he would remember that just because of how it`s not every day that you have to 12:56 deal with something like that, you know. Um, yeah. Well, it is it is possible. Uh, I think 13:04 my commanding officer`s name at that time was Captain Kul Santo, 13:11 but I`m not sure because you get commanding officers come and go. You know, the first 13:17 uh they they tend to stick around longer. Commanding officers are a lot of times they`re only there for a year or two and 13:23 then they`re off to the next thing. So, okay. My recollection of the commanding officer may not be accurate. What`s the 13:30 the spelling of his last name? Kasanto. Uh, Cola. C O L A S A N T O. 13:40 Okay. St. Cola. Yeah. 13:46 Okay. Is there anything else you think would be helpful to to talk about right now about then the time frame? That was 13:53 the first time anyone had ever mentioned to you anything about the films other than 13:59 when you were involved in filming. Is that accurate? Okay. 14:04 Yes. The the first time that I can recall anybody that it ever coming up, I 14:10 always knew that they were um you know that the films at at least one or two of 14:17 them were out there. I don`t even know how many times I was filmed. Um, but I 14:23 can tell you that that some of them are are extraordinarily horrible. I can give you 14:29 one instance where they were filming us. It was me and a girl that I knew uh that 14:36 I had been trafficked with uh in other venues and while we were filming uh they 14:43 came in and shot her in the head. So, killed her obviously. So that would 14:50 be Was that the runaway? That was another girl. I can`t even 14:56 remember her name. Yeah, the the runaway was tortured to death in a duplex in uh Enterprise, 15:02 Alabama. My parents did that. And we had that wasn`t on film. uh the not her her 15:09 being tortured, but uh that was uh that was that black girl that I`m telling you 15:15 about that that later on uh Michael Bis had talked to me about, but they went 15:21 and got her because they were afraid that that this was after the investigation in 15:29 Tennessee and they were afraid that that they would go down for child pornography. So, they were 15:35 wanting to kill her and then they were wanting to get rid of me via an accident, but 15:40 they couldn`t because they had already tried to kill me several times. They had the incident in 15:47 Texas involving a Chevy van. There was another in instance in Texas where my 15:53 dad threw me into the middle of a pool and said sink or swim and somebody saw it and called the sheriff. So, there was 15:59 police report on that. And then there was a third instance in Texas where they uh my dad threw me down a flight of 16:06 stairs and that one fractured my skull. Now there may have been other things that happened as well, but I remember 16:13 those three were uh uh enough that they 16:18 generated an investigation. Um, there were enough things that happened in Texas that, uh, my dad moved 16:25 from Texas to Tennessee and then got in trouble in Tennessee and were moved. They got in trouble in Tennessee and 16:31 they moved to Alabama. Got in trouble in Alabama and then we just moved one more time. 16:36 And you told me about your your adoptive dad, William Kyle Riley. Correct. 16:41 Yes. Yes. I don`t I have um I have located my birth parents. My birth mother lives in 16:48 Sierra Vista and my birth father lives in Edund, Oklahoma. But I have as yet I 16:54 have not reached out to either of them. Um I just within the last year probably 17:01 six months I learned where they live. So uh that I don`t know that`s just an 17:08 odd dynamic for me and I`m still kind of processing that. Uh, but as far as 17:14 family goes, I have a halfsister up in uh uh Massachusetts and that`s about it. 17:21 Okay. And your adopted dad, William Kyle Riley, worked as a pilot and was 17:28 involved Yes. integrating in the Epstein Trump, all kinds of things. 17:33 Yeah. And worked a lot with Trump and Epstein. Correct. He 17:39 I I know that he was around Epstein and worked with Epstein and I want to say 17:45 that he fought for Epstein and if not for Epstein directly 17:50 um like transporting Epstein himself. He did transport some of the latch people 17:57 to and from uh these parties that Epstein and company hosted. It`s it 18:02 wasn`t just him. It was kind of a cabal of several people and Epstein was the I 18:09 guess the lead coordinator maybe you would call it but it it`s much more than just him as 18:15 an individual you know it was people like him like Trump uh other people 18:21 um and I can`t remember you know like how many but he was 18:28 he he was handy to have around because he was a part of the process and he isn`t just a uh like an airline pilot or 18:35 something like that. He he can fly anything. He can fly helicopters, fixed wing, uh smaller aircraft, larger 18:43 aircraft. I mean, he is he`s a you know, he`s that pilot that kind of that 18:50 multi-purpose guy that could transport whatever he needed. 18:56 So, I don`t Yeah, I don`t know if he ever got into the drugs. 19:01 I can remember him talking at one point and he had refused to do a drug run 19:08 basically and somebody else took that drug run and they got busted. 19:14 Yeah. So I don`t I don`t know what kind of aircraft it was or whatever and it was around Florida that that guy got busted 19:20 and maybe he flew down uh to the Virgin Islands or something like that. I I can`t remember the specific details, but 19:26 I can remember the conversation that my dad had talking about, thank God I 19:31 didn`t take that and because the guy got busted and he wound up, you know, huge 19:36 amount of charges, 25 to life or whatever the heck he got. But I can remember from his perspective being 19:44 nervous because the people that he was walking with, he was scared that they were going to set him up to take the 19:50 fall for something to just get rid of him because he had been involved in so much other criminality that he was 19:58 really nervous about taking on anything else. I I know that`s kind of word salad the 20:05 way that I said it, but I I think you kind of understand what I`m saying. I do. No, I understand. I understand 20:12 perfectly. So your dad would obviously, you know, my 20:18 understanding is your your dad was the kind of pilot that those sort of criminals would want to 20:23 use cuz they could use him to fly any anything in any situation to airlift 20:29 Trump out like you said when you almost killed Trump when Trump was assaulting you or fly guest. 20:37 He wasn`t the pilot in that case. Absolute. I`m sorry. I didn`t mean to interrupt. No, no, that`s okay. 20:43 So yeah, I`ve got, you know, I`ve spoken to folks that, you know, 20:50 they look for those sorts of pilots. They want pilots that can get 20:55 guests traffickers into situations, in and out discreetly, trafficking victims 21:00 in and out of situations discreetly, and victims that they killed out of 21:06 situations discreetly, all sorts of nonsense. So, seems like And that`s what that`s what he did. He 21:12 he shuttled the people. But I can remember him not wanting to to cross the 21:19 bridge over to running drugs. Yeah. You know, because in his mind, if he got 21:24 caught with some people, he could just play dumb. And I was just transporting this guy`s kid to, you know, find the, 21:31 you know, here to there. I I didn`t know anything. So So did your dad 21:37 I was Did your dad will transport the victims 21:45 most often. Oh, absolutely. So, more victims than guests. 21:51 I don`t want to call them books. I would say more guests than than victims. Uh, but he definitely 21:56 transported both. Okay. Okay. And that was either directly for 22:02 Epstein like trans wasn`t transporting Epstein so much as Epstein`s victims and 22:09 Epstein`s guests and the clients. The clients, but he was definitely around Epstein. I 22:16 can I can remember the one time that I can remember meeting both of them. And I 22:21 I can`t even remember Jeffrey hardly at all, but I can remember the conversation 22:27 in the car where they they kept asking how to say uh Klain`s name because it 22:33 was unusual. And uh during that meeting, uh my mom wanted to get the name right, 22:40 you know, whatever. That was important to her, you know. Yeah. And what`s your mom`s name again? 22:48 Uh her name was Mary Lynn Riley. This would be my third mom because my 22:54 my dad adopted me with a uh a lady ma named uh Irene Ursula Litzky was her 23:02 maiden name. Her name is Pier now. Um but those two adopted me. He got 23:08 divorced from Irene inh 79 or 80 and almost immediately married Lynn. So, uh, 23:16 Irene may have been involved in some of that, but that would be from a time frame that I don`t have clear 23:23 recollection of. I do have clear recollection of Mary Lynn Riley`s involvement, uh, but she died via 23:29 suicide a number of years ago. Uhhuh. Okay. 23:35 Now, um, 23:41 what are you most comfortable to talk about next? I mean, well, let me ask some more questions in terms of the Now, 23:48 you you told me about Trump and about Bigs and about Jordan. I feel like that`s important to discuss in details. 23:56 And let me ask you a question. Do you think it`s more helpful for you to talk about what you remember first 24:02 when you were first trafficked, the circumstances, individuals involved, or do you want to 24:07 talk about some of the incidents that that we spoke about a bit by email already? What`s what do you think is 24:15 most helpful for you? Fill in whatever gaps in in that that I 24:20 can. Um I have spoken to you about most of what I remember clearly, but I can I 24:26 can give you some of the details with those three and that`s why that`s 24:32 why I I am willing to talk about them. you know, there`s no um 24:39 I remember more things, but I just can`t I can`t I can`t give you much in the way of detail for anybody other than those 24:46 three. I can remember Jim Jordan. I went to a party. This was at a farm. There 24:52 were uh I don`t know 25 to 50 people there. I mean, it was it was a good 24:57 amount of people, but not a a massive crowd by any stretch. But what my the 25:03 experience that my dad sold to those people was if you could pin me then you 25:10 could do whatever you wanted. But my dad had taught me how to fight. He had been a like a bare knuckle dollar earlier in 25:17 his uh life. And uh I know that he had 25:22 talked kind of just beaten people up for you know a little extra money at one 25:28 point in his life. Uh he he also entered into like the tough man contest, stuff 25:34 like that. So it it was kind of a game for them because I was just a child. So 25:40 you would think that you could just uh you know do whatever you wanted. But if they got anywhere near me, I would hit 25:46 them. And by the time that Kim Jordan assaulted me, I was old enough that 25:52 those adults, not being most of them not being athletic in any way, you know, these are these are people that, you 25:58 know, they`re not fighters by any stretch. Uh they they couldn`t get anywhere near me. And Jim Jordan just sort of rushed 26:07 me and tackled me and I might have known how to fight, but I didn`t know how to wrestle. So he assaulted me in front of 26:13 a crowd. And I I think that it was filmed, but I can`t swear that it was filmed, but it was in front of those 25 26:19 or 50 people. Um, and how old were you? I remember I was 26:27 around 12. 12 when that happened. And of those 25, 50 people, oh, sorry. 26:34 Go ahead. The reason that I remember Jim Jordan is he stood out because he wasn`t that 26:40 much. He`s he`s only like seven or eight years older than me. So at the time frame that I`m I`m at 12, he is right 26:47 around just graduating high school, maybe maybe first year or two of college, right? So kind of being so much 26:54 younger stood out. And then I remembered his jawline. He has a very uh very 27:01 pronounced jawline. I remembered his voice and he his mannerisms haven`t 27:06 changed throughout his life either. So when I really started uh and since Trump 27:12 went down that escalator and said he was running for president, I I I got involved in politics, you know, I 27:18 started I started watching it. Uh I started watching who supported him and everything like that. And I remember Jim 27:24 Jordan just from watching him on the uh uh floor of Congress, you know, speaking 27:32 to the different people that, you know, go go up there and testify. So, 27:38 uh, that`s him, you know. I I just remembered him. So, 27:44 yeah, that`s I know that`s not a lot, but you give me a polygraph, I`m going to 27:50 take it because I`m 100% sure that that it was him. Uhhuh. 27:55 And Andy Biggs, I remember because on the way to this, they took me to a a 28:03 house. This wasn`t at a party. This was later after I had assaulted Trump and it 28:10 was kind of a punishment type of thing where he was going to get to assault me 28:15 and I guess not pay my parents and he got to do whatever he wanted. And I can 28:20 remember telling me they I wasn`t allowed to fight back or they`d kill me and you know all of this. But they they 28:26 must have said his name 50 times in the car. So Bigs kept I kept hearing Bigs 28:34 Andy Biggs. big. So I I thought I`m going to remember this way. And after he 28:40 assaulted me, I don`t even remember the the assault necessarily, but I remember being in the car afterwards and being 28:47 like really nauseous, sick to my stomach. I was seeing spots and I mean 28:53 uh the guy beat me until I I had broken ribs and and was convulsing turning blue 28:59 and stuff like that. And I can the only part of that assault that I can remember 29:05 is laying on the uh floor of of the room trying to breathe. And I could I could 29:11 hear Andy and my dad screaming back and forth at each other. And I can remember 29:18 Andy Biggs saying, "You said I could do whatever I wanted." And my dad saying, "I didn`t say you could [ __ ] kill 29:25 him." And you know, I think they may have actually thrown globes over it, but 29:31 there was a heated argument and everything going on for for an extended period of time. And then I can remember 29:36 being in the car leaving and just having my eyes closed because my head was 29:42 spinning and everything and I was just trying to breathe just in and out, you know? That`s why I remember him so clearly. 29:48 Uh, I have had more than one encounter with Trump and that`s why I tried to kill that son of a [ __ ] because he is a 29:55 [ __ ] monster. It`s why I have not shut up about just how absolutely 30:01 abhorentt he is as a human being. And it`s why I tried to That`s why I tried to kill him. 30:06 Yeah. Because I had decided I had already seen enough other people die that in my mind 30:13 I thought uh well, they`re just going to kill me too at some point, right? 30:19 uh you know, I`m not going to survive to be an adult from this. So, in my mind, 30:24 he was the biggest privilege that I had ever had to have any contact with. So, I was going to take him with me. And 30:32 how often did Trump assault you? You remember? remember 30:38 I can remember two specifically a third one that I think and I think I was 30:45 around him more than those just those three times but only three times do do I 30:52 kind of remember I can remember at one point him asking uh the people that were 30:57 kind of running that party or or whatever it was at that farm um he wanted to kill somebody he wanted to 31:05 he wanted to murder somebody and they said, "Hey, that`s not this kind of party. You can`t do that." And uh they 31:13 and in lie of doing that, they said, "Well, we`ve got some some puppies. If you just want to kill something, we`ve 31:19 got to get rid of them anyway." So, I can remember him taking those puppies one by one. And like he snapped one of 31:27 the puppies necks, he cut one open and let it just howl and and and you know, 31:32 writhe in pain while it died. held one under some water to kill it. He just he 31:38 he wanted to kill those puppies in and you know 31:44 whatever gruesome way you know to to experience I guess seeing them suffer in different ways. What his kink is I guess 31:52 if you want to call it that is watching people suffer. He likes to destroy people physically, 32:01 mentally during the process of the assault. That`s why he stands out so much in my 32:08 memory, you know, and it`s it`s it`s physical pain and then it`s it`s also, 32:16 you know, degrading and and and all of that. But his thing was to just try to 32:21 destroy human beings to the to the utmost that he could possibly do it, which is why I attacked him. 32:29 Yeah, that`s understandable. So, um 32:36 I can tell you this that the last one and and Okay, so this was after they had killed 32:45 the uh Samantha. This is the vibr that I made the the one of the movies with. 32:50 Yeah. Um and these were Let me just ask a question just to clarify. So when 32:56 Samantha was killed, these were were all of these parties at the farm or similar locations to the farm 33:02 where there was multiple multiple farms. And usually it was parties. So there was 33:10 individuals like Trump that were flown in to the parties and they would have like a building, you 33:17 know, a house uh and they would usually have like a tent set up and uh you know, it was 33:25 almost like a little I don`t want to say a fair. It wasn`t that big. They didn`t have rides or anything, but there was it 33:33 was a kind of a coordinated deal, you know. Um, sometimes they would have the uh the 33:39 bare knuckle fighting. That`s that probably is how I my dad got involved with these people because uh you know, 33:46 you`ve got boxing and stuff like that on TV, but that`s really all you had back in the 70s and 80s. They the you know, 33:53 more the MMA type of stuff wasn`t allowed. And these fights were a little 33:58 well gruesome. They didn`t they didn`t fight to the death or anything like that, but they were they were bloody. 34:04 And you know, I mean, these were these were fights, you know, and not just boxing. And so the the uh rich people would pay to 34:12 see that. Sometimes they`d have like a, you know, a band playing uh you know, 34:18 just like what you would expect at like a fair or something, you know. So the rich folks would get flown in 34:24 associated with Epstein and they would pay to watch the victims fight. The v 34:30 victims were all underage. And would they pay to then assault the victims 34:35 after the fights or during the fights? And they`d pay to torture the victims and rape the victims 34:42 and kill the victims. Uh but now now some of the fights were adults, you know, you know, if they had some big 34:48 old country boy and some other guy, they they would pay to see that. They would also pay to watch the kids fight. And 34:55 they did pay to watch me fight. I would fight other kids. And my dad was was my 35:01 initial trainer uh for me to learn how to fight. I would later uh go on to be a 35:09 a boxer, amateur boxer, but that`s how I got my start in all of that. So, yes, 35:15 they would have paid for that. Um and the experiences were different uh each 35:21 time. There wasn`t like a set thing. You never really knew what was going to happen. So, um, you know, part of it, a 35:29 lot of it just comes down to money, you know. So, if they offered, uh, $5,000 to 35:34 have sex with me, then then, you know, 35:40 my dad was willing to do that, you know, dollar amounts where I don`t I don`t 35:45 Sasha, that isn`t that isn`t sex. That that`s that`s sexual assault. 35:52 I mean, I I just want to say something first. I think, okay, 35:57 you`re extremely brave and you behave extremely strong like a warrior. And I 36:04 just want to stop and say it`s important to me to say that because a lot of folks you know wouldn`t even survive such 36:11 trauma but you`ve you`ve survived and you you know you conduct yourself with 36:16 with dignity and and and gracefully and and I is important to me to say that. I 36:22 I hope you know that, you know, I hope you have a sense of your your own honor 36:27 and chivalousness, especially what you told me in terms of drugs they used on you and how they lured you drug to to to 36:35 behave monstrous towards other kids. You know, I understand the comments. I just 36:42 I`m sorry. I didn`t mean to interrupt, but I can remember uh some law some arm of law enforcement 36:49 showing me video of me harming one of the people that they were filming me 36:55 with. Now, I don`t know how that came about. Um 37:00 whether they they drugged me and I lost my mind or they told me to do it. I 37:06 don`t I don`t know the circumstances, but I can remember being in that room and them saying, "Well, you did this." 37:13 And and it may have not even been law enforcement. It may have been, you know, like the people that were running that, 37:18 but I can remember being really upset because I had no recollection of having done that. It was me in the video and I 37:25 was beating somebody or a girl set us and uh I didn`t count her or anything 37:31 like that, but I you know Yeah. So, and I have a feeling, you know, this 37:40 this part I can`t prove because I I you know, I I have I only have my own experiences. But what the whole thing 37:48 seems to be is that they first abuse you, then they get you on film abusing 37:54 others, and now they have you trapped as well. Yeah. So, you can`t talk about the abuse that 37:59 they did to you. If they want you to be a legacy victim, somebody that they can use in the future, well, then they`ve 38:06 got to get you on tape doing monstrous things to other people as well, because now they have the leverage to keep your 38:12 mouth shut. Yeah. No, and you know what? You`re exactly right. That`s exactly the 38:17 tactic. And it it`s it`s in the tactic is insidious because 38:23 um have have you ever heard of the the the torture technique a lot of um occult 38:30 practitioners use? It`s called uh inversion inversion torture. Inversion 38:36 magic isn`t magic. Sorcery is just smoke and mirrors, nonsense, deception 38:41 techniques, but a sort of inversion technique where to try to linguistically manipulate the victims to try to get the 38:48 victims in a position where the victims doubt whether the victims, 38:54 you know, are good or not. That`s absolutely And I think that`s the case with a lot of the Republicans you mentioned. Like 39:00 you said, Clarence Thomas and Lindsey Graham were at these parties. You can`t remember if Lindsy Graeme and Clarence 39:06 Thomas participated and it`s sort of a question of did they participate? Were they blackmailed 39:12 because they were there attended the parties but they didn`t participate? Can you tell me much more about Clarence 39:17 Thomas and Lindsey Graham? I know the least about him. The only 39:23 reason that I can remember him is because he was a black man. And the 39:28 I`m sorry, but that that that club is is pretty much just white folks. So having 39:34 a black person there uh was very unusual. So he stood out. But the only 39:40 thing that I can really say is that I remembered him being there and then I 39:45 remember what a big deal it was in our household when he got confirmed on to 39:52 the Supreme Court. Yeah. Uh because my dad was excited about that 39:57 because of how high up he was. Now I don`t I can`t swear I may have been 40:02 assaulted by Clarence Thomas but I cannot swear to that. Yeah. If he did assault me, then it was 40:08 not to the level of something that scared me to the point where I needed to 40:15 remember it, if that`s a good way to put that, which rose to that. And Andy Biggs 40:21 rose to that. And Jim Jordan rose to that because he was dangerous to me because I could keep most people away 40:27 from me with my fists, but you know, he he was a good wrestler. So, you know, he 40:35 scared me in that sense that this is a person that I can`t, you know, that I 40:40 can`t keep away from him with my with my fist. Um, Lindsey Graham, I am fairly 40:46 sure he has assaulted me, but I just can`t put my hand on a Bible and swear to that. 40:52 Yeah. You know, I know that he was there. I can remember it. He he just like uh Jim 40:57 Jordan has uh very distinct mannerisms and his voice is a little unusual as 41:03 well. So I could remember his voice, I could remember his mannerisms and then obviously how he looks. Um 41:10 so I can put him there, but I just can`t I can`t say he did this or he did that 41:17 exactly. I just can`t. Okay. So, I wish that I could provide more 41:22 information on that because I I I think some things went on, but that`s just not 41:28 enough for me to point a finger and make an accusation. But he was there. I can 41:33 tell you that. Yeah. Well, that`s that`s that`s enough. And I know that, you know, some sorts of 41:39 interviews there`s we can look at at a different time to see if there is any more information you remember. But what 41:45 you do remember I I just want you to know what you remember to know that what what you remember is extremely important 41:51 and is extremely helpful. I know you want to be able to remember more and memories are in there and you know I I 41:59 just want to approach the situation delicately cuz you know 42:05 other memories are are are just vague. you know, I can and and and 42:11 I I have been very careful too not to to to to reach out further because there 42:18 are some other names that I could I could mention that I believe were there that I know for a fact that that my 42:24 parents talked about, but I don`t have a clear enough recollection 42:30 of anything. Like I can tell you 100% sure that they talked about Vladimir 42:35 Putin, but I do not believe he was ever at one of those parties that I was at, but his name was brought up more than 42:43 once during the 1980s. Yes. Okay. 42:49 Vladimir Putin. I don`t I don`t know even when he ascended to the presidency, but I remember the name because it was 42:54 so unusual. Now, at that point, he may have just been, you know, one of the Russian oligarchs or whatever, but his 43:02 name came up and and I remember just because it`s an unusual name, Vladimir Putin, you know, um but I don`t believe 43:10 he was ever there. So, that is like I don`t know. It`s there are other names 43:16 like that, too. Okay, let`s talk a little bit about Clinton`s name being brought up, but I 43:22 don`t ever remember saying it. So Clinton was mentioned, but you never saw Clinton. 43:28 Not that I can recall. And and that`s another thing, too. I may 43:34 have had interactions with additional people, but some during some of them, I 43:40 was so drugged out of my mind, I I don`t really remember what happened, you know. 43:45 Yeah. When when you heard them talk about Putin, so it was at one of the parties of one of the farms. Do you 43:52 remember what they were saying about Putin? Just that he was some sort of like uh 43:59 foreigner that was very important. I I you know I didn`t know anyone you know 44:05 the the name was just unusual and 44:11 they they mentioned his name you know they they kind of uh had fun saying his 44:17 name you know Vladimir you know does he like to go by Vlad or this or that but 44:24 the the meeting with that person I don`t think ever materialized I think it was 44:30 just something that was discussed and never happened. Now, if he has other 44:35 connections, you know, and he very well may uh that`s possible, but I can just 44:41 remember there are at those parties there were people that had strange 44:47 accents. Um, but that`s that`s it. That`s that`s all I could say. I couldn`t point and 44:54 say, well, this person was from Spain or this person was from Portugal. I I have no idea. But what I do know for a fact 45:02 is not every person at those parties was American. Yeah, 45:09 I know that`s not a lot, but I again I I remember what I 45:14 I have a question with with Trump, I mean with Putin, did you get the sense that the party 45:21 attendees that the clients were interested in Putin? There was something they wanted from Putin. They thought 45:26 they could get money from Putin, influence from Putin. Did you have any 45:31 sense of that? The only sense that I had was that this 45:37 was uh uh the rich people regardless of where they were from. 45:43 Yeah. At this point in my child brain, I knew that there were rich people and those 45:49 people got to do whatever they wanted. And then they walk into people like me and those people, you know, that was the 45:56 dynamic. So, you know, that`s that`s that`s it. That 46:01 I I never heard them say anything about blackmailing and stuff like that, but I 46:08 can remember them showing me a video of me doing bad stuff. And then I can 46:13 remember people telling me that if I ever talked about it, what I had done was illegal, too. by uh and and a lot of 46:20 that was just [ __ ] because I was just a kid and they were making me do this stuff. Yeah. But talk about malevolent hypocrisy, 46:29 dude. They were just utterly grotesque. They they were trafficking you. They 46:36 assaulting you. They were drugging you. And then they were trying to to to they they were trying to make me 46:41 feel psychologically torture you. Exactly. Exactly. when they you were in a 46:46 situation because they were trafficking you. The the last encounter with Trunk, the 46:53 one where I injured him was the one that I remember the most vividly. And this 46:59 was the setup for that. I can remember my dad before we went to the farm. This 47:05 was when we lived in Enterprise, Alabama. Yeah. So, it would have been about 81 to 82, 47:11 somewhere in there. maybe as maybe as late as 83, but he said there may be 47:17 somebody that you know there and and I can remember the look on his face and it 47:23 scared the [ __ ] out of me. But anyway, when I got to the farm, of 47:28 course, I`m scared at the farm because I don`t know what`s going to happen. But 47:33 the first person that comes up to me is a girl named Patricia. This is a girl that I had been trafficked with before. 47:39 and she came running up to me and, you know, said said hello or whatever. Uh, she was about my same age, around 12 or 47:46 13. And I can remember my dad saying, "Well, why don`t you guys go run off and 47:52 and or whatever and and have fun and I I can I can remember not knowing 48:00 what to do in that instance because, you know, these parties weren`t for me. I wasn`t." And then then he said something 48:06 to the effect of, you know, It`s not like that for you anymore. You`re a man now. You can just 48:13 go out and have fun. Well, we went to go have sex. So, uh, we went and found a 48:19 room and started having sex and while we 48:24 were having sex, people burst into the room. It would have been four, five, six guys, big guys, adults. Uh, 48:33 at least one of them had a gun. I think I think two or three of them had guns, but they came in, they assaulted her, 48:41 they beat on her, and then they shot her while she was still in the bed. They 48:46 didn`t beat or assault me, but what they said was, "If you don`t do everything 48:52 that the next person coming in here wants, we`re going to shoot you just like we 48:57 did her." I can remember them having like an argument because they shot her in the bed and then they had to go find 49:02 another mattress. Well, that`s where Trump came in. So, that`s why I remember 49:09 him so vividly. And it was at that point I had already decided they`re probably just going to kill me anyway. I`m going 49:15 to take him with me. And I tried. I did not. 49:20 How did How did you So, obviously Trump was extremely 49:27 violent. Trump`s um a sadistic psychopath. when Trump assaulted you. 49:34 So, sexual assault and physical assault. Yes. 49:39 And we act out at that. Well, I kind of 49:44 acquiesced to whatever sexual things that he wanted to do. But at some point, 49:52 uh, he wanted me to have sex with him. So he laid down on his stomach and there 49:59 was a uh northern tent steak that was in the room and I had been eyeballing it as 50:06 a weapon and what I did was put the condom on the northern tent steak, put 50:12 it inside of him and I kicked it as hard as I could and that`s why he had to get lifelighted out because I ripped him 50:19 open. Sweet. Do you ever watch the movie The 50:24 Equalizer? No, I haven`t seen it. Denzel Washington, you know, sort of 50:30 like justice when everyone in involved in American law enforcement can`t 50:37 get any justice. Um, that would be a sort of situation obviously. 50:43 Um, I laughed because there`s poetic justice there, Sasha. 50:50 that and that was what facilitated that. Not only did I get really assaulted by 50:56 uh Andy Biggs, I also got assaulted by like an entire party`s worth of people. 51:03 They took after Trump was airlifted out. Yeah. A whole another party. So they 51:10 took me to another party after that. And because I had done that to one of those rich people, um I they took me from like 51:17 station to station and they could do whatever they wanted. Most of them just beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat on me. I can remember me 51:24 standing there had already gotten beaten up you know I don`t know five six times 51:29 and I can remember somebody urinated on me and I said thank you for not hurting 51:35 me. And he just hauled off and punched me in the side of the head. Knocked me out. Uh, 51:42 I can remember leaving that party and my dad was just kind of dragging me out of there. 51:49 It was another instance just like with Andy Biggs where I got beaten to the point where, you know, I was I was the 51:56 ring was spinning. I was nauseous, probably throwing up. Um, maybe some 52:02 broken bones uh badly. And how many perpetrators did you say 52:08 again? 20 to 40 25 to 40 perpetrators 52:14 people that were there. Yes. I would say probably eight or 10 that just beat the absolute hell out of me. And some of 52:21 them probably sexually assaulted me, but I can`t remember. I can remember getting a hurt, you know, just getting beaten up 52:28 and uh you know, was that before you tried to defend 52:33 yourself from Trump or after? Do you remember? That was after that was after a 52:40 punishment, if you want to call it that. The what happened at that party was part of the punishment. And then I can 52:47 remember them saying that this is the last step when I had to go see Andy Biggs. Andy Biggs almost [ __ ] killed 52:53 me. So I remember him to this day. I Yes. 52:58 So when Andy Biggs almost killed you was after Trump as well? 53:04 Yes. Okay. after Andy Biggs was after Trump. The party that a whole bunch of people 53:10 assaulted me was after that. And then the last one was Andy Biggs. And then I 53:15 can remember my dad saying no more. Uh I can remember him even kind of breaking 53:20 down a little bit like psychologically because of just I guess the repeated watching me 53:27 just get destroyed by people. You got to understand it`s not like boooos and band-aids. They were breaking ribs and 53:33 he uh really hurt me. You know, I`ve got like a defam rib cage to this day. 53:39 No, sounds like they were trying to tort you just to the point of death to to 53:45 punish you and to send a message. They tried over and over again to hint 53:51 to me to get me to kill myself. Yeah. And I can remember thinking there`s no way I`m going to kill myself because 53:56 that`s what they want. So just I survived some of that just out 54:02 of spite to be honest with you. Uh there`s there`s really no other way to put it. But I wasn`t going to I just I 54:09 kind of remember hating my mom so much that there I just did not want to give her the satisfaction. 54:15 Yeah. She as bad as my dad was Marilyn Riley was even more evil. 54:23 She her thing was sexually torturing me. So 54:28 and and she enjoyed sexually torturing Samantha when they went and got help. 54:34 And Samantha was the runaway that writing that woman. 54:40 She always she lived in a uh a brothel basically a a house where they had uh 54:48 four or five underage girls that had they had scooped up from wherever they got them from. and uh they would use 54:56 those girls at these parties. Well, at one time they sent me to go be a part of 55:01 that. So that`s when I made friends with Samantha, Patricia, and Sarah. And those are the only three that I can remember 55:08 their names, but Sarah um committed suicide. Samantha was tortured to death, and Patricia was the girl that got shot 55:16 in the bed before Trump came in. Did Patricia die? Oh, yeah. Yeah. 55:24 So Samantha, Patricia, and Sarah, and all three died. 55:29 Yes. Yes. So Samantha was the runaway that was murdered by your adopted parents. 55:37 Yes. Patricia committed suicide. Sarah committed suicide. And Patricia was 55:43 murdered in the bed before Trump came in. And then they threatened you and said to let Trump do whatever 55:50 Trump wanted to do to you. where they would shoot you in the head as well. Yes. Yes. 55:58 Okay. And I can remember I can remember them pointing the gun at me 56:04 and saying, "We`re going to kill you and my dad protesting because he said, "If 56:11 you shoot him, we all got to go to jail." And he was he was really I can 56:17 remember him be distant. Now, he was he`s a kind of a tough guy and you know, 56:23 all of that sort of stuff. So, that`s what stood out to me was he was really scared because he knew that if they just 56:30 shot me, that`s not something he could explain to anybody. And he had gotten 56:35 into so much trouble trying to get rid of me already. But, uh there`s the the 56:42 Chevy van incident, there`s the pool incident, and then there`s the uh uh stairs incident. And all of those 56:48 generated a a police report. In addition to that, we went down to Panama City, 56:53 Florida to the beach, either Panama City or Dest. And they took me to a rip tide 57:00 area. Uh I didn`t know it was a riptide area. There were no other people on the beach, you know, it was just us. But 57:06 within like 100 yards, 150 yards, there`s the regular beach where people 57:12 were at. Uh you know how they have the the riptide zones? They don`t want you out there, right? For obvious reasons. 57:17 while they took me to one of these zones and had me, you know, say, "Hey, you know, come out here and play in the 57:23 water and this and that." And for the first few minutes, it was just the three of us playing in the water and I`m just a kid. You know, beach is awesome. So, 57:31 uh, at any rate, they go back in. I`m out there playing. Eventually, that that 57:36 current gets me and I don`t know how to swim at this point in my life. So it pulls me out, you know, 100 feet maybe, 57:45 and I`m bouncing up and down off the sandbar, just screaming my head off. Well, somebody that was on the regular 57:51 beach, not in the rip tide area, heard the screaming and came running like 150 57:57 yards away and by my parents who were standing there and he goes out there and 58:03 gets me, fishes me out. By the time he comes back, he`s nearly exhausted. And I can remember him and my dad nearly 58:10 fighting and at this point there there are other people that are coming and you 58:15 know that scares the [ __ ] out of my dad. But there was another police report with that and I know that that police report 58:22 followed us back up into Alabama because the sheriff came down there and talked 58:28 to uh talked to my dad in Alabama. So there was another investigation for sure. So all of those things had already 58:36 happened and my dad was terrified that if something happened to me at 58:41 especially so close to all of these other things that that all of these other investigations, he pretty much 58:48 knew he was going to go to jail over it. So there was at least the the the Chevy 58:54 van incident, pool incident, stairs incident, there was police and police reports. How many police were reports? 59:00 About three or four. And then that I can I I were just involved in 59:06 trying to get rid of me. And then there were in addition to those four, there were the two investigations, one for the 59:13 porn and then when we lived in the duplex and they were torturing that girl to death, Samantha, um our duplex 59:20 neighbors there in Enterprise, Alabama, they called the police because they could hear uh you know, screams and and 59:29 uh you know, beatings and stuff like that. And when they investigated, I can 59:34 remember my dad saying, "Hey, you know, he talking about me as just uh uh you 59:42 know, I had gotten in trouble and got a whipping or something." And they did an 59:47 investigation. They they like uh they collected blood samples and everything from the house, but the problem was they 59:54 couldn`t determine how long that blood had been there, I guess. and they didn`t 59:59 it wasn`t a match to anybody in the house. So I for whatever reason they just 1:00:06 didn`t have enough and I I don`t think they were allowed to talk to me. I think my dad would have had to given them 1:00:13 permission for the investigators to interrogate me. So I don`t recall ever giving testimony 1:00:21 as a child at least in that instance. Why in the instance up in uh Tennessee? 1:00:29 Did you provide any testimony to the police in any of those five cases? Well, 1:00:34 the one case with the military with a child pornography. You they the the the I can`t remember the 1:00:42 sheriff talking to me at the uh at the beach in Panama City and 1:00:52 I don`t remember what all was said, but I can remember my dad tried to get out of there and the guy that went and 1:00:58 fished me out, my dad`s a pretty big guy and he`s he can fight, but the guy that went and got me was like a I mean he was 1:01:05 a tank, so it wasn`t something that he wanted to really get into a fight about over there and the you know people 1:01:13 started coming in so they my parents I can remember them trying to hug me and 1:01:18 stuff. Oh my god, thank God. I can remember the guy that fished me out and he said, "There`s no goddamn way. I 1:01:23 heard that from 150 yards away and you`re standing there watching him and you didn`t hear it, you know, 1:01:31 and you know, they tried to play it off like, well, we just thought he was playing, you know, swimming and stuff 1:01:37 like that." And I can remember the sheriff asking, "Do you know how to swim?" And I said, "No, sir." And they 1:01:42 were like, "Okay, this this [ __ ] sucks." You know, there`s no way that this is legitimate. And I can remember 1:01:50 the sheriff in Alabama talking to my dad and saying, 1:01:55 "There better not be anything that happens to him." And he said, "Because I`m just going to go ahead and tell you, you`re going to go to jail. I don`t 1:02:01 care." He said, "I`ll make sure of it." So they they had a sense, but they 1:02:07 didn`t know. They didn`t have enough of what they thought of as evidence to be able to do anything. Exactly. Right. 1:02:12 And that was the case with Samantha as well. Yes. And and your dad wouldn`t let them 1:02:18 talk to you. What`s that? And your dad wouldn`t let the the police officers talk to you. 1:02:25 So, right. That also seems weird. That he it seems weird. I I mean I know in Canada 1:02:33 is a bit different like in terms of you know there would have 1:02:38 been folks from child protection services there and they would have gotten you away from your your adoptive 1:02:44 fathers to talk to you to talk to you. You wouldn`t have gone through that sort of horror in Canada. 1:02:50 I`m I`m really sad that`s what had occurred at at one point CPS did take me. So, I 1:02:58 got into the foster care system and the ultimately uh I`m I`m just going to I 1:03:05 was ungovernable, incredible as as at that point in my life. If if you said 1:03:12 something to me, um you know, I didn`t necessarily I I didn`t care who you 1:03:18 were. I wasn`t necessarily going to do that and I might just hit you, you know, because that was just my response to 1:03:25 life at that point. So, uh, eventually I made my way right back to that house. 1:03:32 So, I can tell you that throughout the process of trying to walk with me, Jane 1:03:39 Goodall was the people that walked with me. So, I know that she is still alive. 1:03:46 I think she`s still alive. I think she`s 91 now. Yeah. And she might recall him having locked 1:03:51 with me because I that would have been one of the strangest cases she ever had 1:03:57 because at around that time frame I had made the decision that I would no longer 1:04:02 let anybody get within arms reach of me. And if they did, I just I`d fight for my life. 1:04:08 So, you know, people had to stay away from me. I could talk. I mean, I wasn`t like a a feral animal, 1:04:15 but I just would not allow people within my personal space anymore. 1:04:21 And because I work, you know, with with apes and everything with gorillas, you 1:04:26 know, they they kind of reached out to her to make contact with me to see if 1:04:32 they could help me. Yeah. 1:04:38 And did you talk to Jean Goodell at all about what you`d experienced getting trafficked? I know when you and I spoke 1:04:46 by email messenger you said was from during about 1978 to 1986 is what you 1:04:53 remembered 9 to 13 but you`re not sure it could have been as early as 6 or 7 years old. 1:04:59 Right. Right. I don`t really start remembering what was going on till about 1:05:04 10 or 11. And uh I just know that it happened before that. I can I can 1:05:10 remember being sexually assaulted by family. Uh that`s some of my very first memories. 1:05:16 So um but as far as taking me to other places 1:05:23 and these parties and and whatnot, I I know that that sort of thing was happening, but I just don`t have a good 1:05:30 enough recollection to really piece together much of a story. So whether you were six or seven years old or or 10 or 1:05:37 11 years old with the parties when you right 1:05:42 I know family was assaulting me and then friends of family were assaulting me as early as six or seven. I I know that 1:05:49 some of my very first memories are of being assaulted. Um but as far as 1:05:55 taking me to places to make money at these parties, I don`t have a clear 1:06:00 recollection. It may have happened as early as the the first sexual assaults that were happening with family. Um, but 1:06:07 I don`t have a clear recollection if that was going on to that scale at that 1:06:12 time, but do have a recollection from about 10 or 11. Okay. 1:06:18 So, 1:06:24 how much I know. No, no, it`s it`s okay. I`m I`m I`m glad 1:06:30 you`re you`re you and I are able to have such a thorough discussion and and I appreciate again how straightforward 1:06:37 forthright you are. You know, it`s extremely important. Um, 1:06:42 I mean there`s a part of me that just wants to point fingers in every direction, but I have I have really 1:06:48 thought about, okay, what do I recall vividly enough that 1:06:56 uh that I would put my hand on the Bible in a courtroom, raise my hand and say, "Yep, that`s the truth." And and what I 1:07:03 am as close to 100% certain that if you put me on a polygraph, it would come 1:07:09 back just as perfect. Yeah. So, there are other things that I could maybe point fingers at, but then it kind 1:07:16 of gets into muddying the water because I don`t really remember them that well. Well, I think 1:07:22 that`s why just Yeah. No, that`s that`s good. And I think what what I`d like to do like 1:07:28 we`ll continue, you know, discussing a bit about we`re talking about now. um 1:07:34 the things that you`re less sure of. I`d like to look at a a second 1:07:40 a a conversation just entirely focused on what you`re not sure of just because 1:07:46 I think there is some important information there, but I don`t want to muddy the waters in terms of what we`re 1:07:51 speaking about now that you that you are willing to testify in a court of law 1:07:57 about. So, so let`s f continue focusing about any of the details about what 1:08:02 you`re willing to swear to in a court of law and then you know then let`s look at I would 1:08:09 maybe look at say a second discussion and any any follow on questions from 1:08:15 this discussion or I might just look at getting everything transcribed and I`m just going to look at it raw because 1:08:21 honestly in terms of um you know all the there`s Obviously 1:08:28 thousands and thousands of of pieces of video footage filmed that the 1:08:34 FBI took that`s all gone into some Yeah. 1:08:39 whoever`s been trying to profit off of is nonsense. So my what I`m looking at 1:08:45 I`m thinking even a a combination like just a brief summary for me like a paragraph and I`ll even look at at just 1:08:53 publishing the raw audio file of our discussion okay with the text messages because I think 1:09:00 the context is really important I think especially because there`s been so much collusion regarding copy editing of 1:09:08 video footage that you know folks that are really wanting that are genuinely 1:09:14 wanting justice. You know, for them to just hear the audio recordings and read the text messages is plain as day. 1:09:22 Anybody that experiences an ounce of integrity will be able to discern the 1:09:28 truth. And I think it`s so important. And I I kind of wanted to discuss one 1:09:35 other thing too. one kind of theme at these parties that 1:09:42 that seemed to be very uh very well thought out is 1:09:49 they would have a larger party in the beginning, right? And and in these larger parties, you might have say uh a 1:09:56 couple of fights or some drug use or uh you know, things that that that that 1:10:02 that were kind of with mildly illegal, but the 1:10:08 parties would go on for multiple days and as the uh thing wound down into the 1:10:14 smaller inner circle and the last day or last two days or whatever, that`s when 1:10:19 the really horrible [ __ ] happened. So, some of the people that attended the party, possibly even people like 1:10:25 Clarence Thomas or Lindsey Graham, may have been involved in lesser things, 1:10:32 uh, but then were also at the, uh, same time and place where these horrible 1:10:38 things happened, but they didn`t necessarily participate in those more horrible things. 1:10:45 So that seemed to be an underlying theme of oh and and this is just me 1:10:50 speculating here as an adult where they would try to get these affluent people in all of these positions of of power 1:10:57 and influence to come participate in these parties where all of these things were going on so that you know if 1:11:05 Clarence Thomas I`ll just use him if he was there at the party well then surely nothing you know that nefarious could be 1:11:12 going on type of situations. Yeah. So, it seemed to be very wellought out 1:11:18 how they kind of did things. But as the party wound down, that`s when people in 1:11:23 my position would really begin to get scared because that`s when either going 1:11:29 to get assaulted and maybe really busted up or, you know, I mean, even watching somebody die is a 1:11:36 royally [ __ ] you know. Did Did it Did you see anyone else die 1:11:42 besides um Samantha and and Patricia? 1:11:48 Yes. Yes. So, uh I watched 1:11:55 I watched a grown man get beaten to death. He had done something uh that pissed off the people that were 1:12:01 running it and they killed him. I saw another girl that in addition to 1:12:07 Patricia when I was making the film with the girl, they came in and shot her while we were having sex. That is some 1:12:13 sort of snuff film. Yeah. Um, and then in the brothel there 1:12:20 were two people that got killed. Uh, Sarah killed herself and then the girl I 1:12:25 don`t remember her name, she was she was shot and killed and then another girl 1:12:30 was also shot and killed. Okay. And all of these No, go ahead. 1:12:36 Me and Samantha having to clean up. Uh, we didn`t have to do anything with the body, but I can remember me and Samantha 1:12:43 had to clean up the blood and everything from from both Sarah Sarah`s suicide, 1:12:50 which was an assisted suicide. Samantha actually shot Sarah. Um, but Sarah 1:12:55 wanted her to do it. She couldn`t pull the trigger herself. So, that`s just So, 1:13:01 Samantha did it. I was in the room when she did, but it wasn`t it wasn`t a murder. 1:13:07 Samantha didn`t murder, but Sarah just I can remember her just saying, "I just I 1:13:12 can`t go to another party. I can`t be here. Please." You know, another of the victims, I don`t know if 1:13:18 you`ve read about, uh, the British woman Sarah Ransom was on the Epstein island 1:13:25 and and tried to swim off the island and was willing to drown than then go through another 1:13:32 Yeah. torture. I mean, it`s some [ __ ] Yeah. And you know it it I can remember 1:13:39 the the hillbillies that my dad sold me to when I was small. They were mean. 1:13:46 Um but I can remember the meanest [ __ ] are those rich people. 1:13:52 They are just demonic. Trump included. Yeah. Well, I`m going to ask you some 1:14:00 questions there again. So with the the the rich folks that you were sold to, that was all associated with with the 1:14:07 Epstein Trump trafficking ring. And you said to me you thought Trump ran things with Epstein. Is that true? 1:14:15 Oh yes. He was not just a a client, he was one of the the 1:14:21 people that facilitated all that stuff. It it was almost like uh 1:14:26 this is just my childhood brain piecing it together. It was almost as if Epstein 1:14:32 looked for Trump and not just Trump, but him and maybe six or eight other super 1:14:39 rich guys. So, Bernie ran it. Yeah. At the behest of Trump and and that 1:14:46 circle of people. So, it was it was just a I I couldn`t tell you how many people, 1:14:52 but he was the only one that that that 1:14:57 I remember that was at that level. But it wasn`t that Trump was a John 1:15:03 visiting, you know, Epstein`s empire of of, you know, child 1:15:11 victims. It was Trump was in a a position above Epstein. Anyway, as if 1:15:18 Epstein rocked for Trump. Yeah. And the rest of those ultra rich guys. 1:15:26 Do you remember ran that ring? Yeah. No. No. I understand. I So, so ret 1:15:34 so Jeffrey was sort of presented publicly as the ring leader of the pedophile 1:15:42 ring, but Jeffrey was basically behaving like uh like a general manager of the ring. And then there was seven or eight 1:15:49 other individuals such as Trump that were actually actively running the ring, 1:15:54 micromanaging, telling Jeffrey what to do. they he would give 1:16:03 Epstein of that caliber of person because I it wasn`t just Epstein. Epstein had people 1:16:09 that walked with him too on a on a low level that would go like find runaways 1:16:15 and stuff like that. Yeah. So I don`t I don`t know where they got the people. I can`t I can`t say that. 1:16:21 But you know it was it was this this whole thing was being run as a Yeah. and 1:16:28 for those rich people. Yeah. I I want to ask some more questions in terms of your sense of like 1:16:34 the demonic um 1:16:41 some of some of the the advisor work I`ve done, some of my 1:16:49 own specifics of law enforcement. Um you know, I`ve come into contact I`ve 1:16:55 minimized any contact with. I`m familiar with a lot of really horrific horror 1:17:01 stories that involve um Satanists, cult practitioners, 1:17:06 theistic Satanists. You know, I`ve I`ve spoken to folks that um were able to get 1:17:13 out of the theistic Satanist cults. A lot of the torture techniques you describe are similar to theistic 1:17:19 Satanist torture techniques. um sexual torture, 1:17:24 human trafficking, human countibism and what I wanted I I you know what what`s 1:17:31 your sense in terms of these parties that that what do you remember like was there any overt I know a lot of the 1:17:38 attendees presented themselves as Christians but their practices are are full-blown 1:17:44 demonic satanic do you have the sense that any of them were actually secretly practicing 1:17:51 any sort of occult rituals or were they just like rich fish fake Christians that 1:17:57 just didn`t experience a conscience? I think it`s the latter just rich fake 1:18:03 Christians. I can I can tell you uh one thing specifically that Trump did. 1:18:08 Yeah. And uh that I remember vividly. He uh I 1:18:15 was exhausted. I couldn`t fight back. And he sat on my chest and would choke 1:18:23 me until I was unconscious. And each time that he did it, he`d say, "I`m going to kill you." So, and then he 1:18:29 would choke me until I was out. And, you know, he did that, you know, half a 1:18:34 dozen times or however many times. And I can remember him saying, "I thought I killed you that time. I`m really going 1:18:40 to do it this time." And then choke me again. So he would just do that over and over again until he got it. 1:18:48 So that`s Did you get the sense that he was trying to kill you or just to torture you about the 1:18:54 thought in the moment? In the moment you think you`re going to die? Yeah. 1:19:00 And that that`s the experience that that he wants to see the fear in another 1:19:05 human being`s eyes that thinks that that that he`s killing them, you know. Yeah. Um, but looking back, I just think 1:19:12 he was just talking me, you know. I don`t think I think had he wanted to kill me, he could have. You know, he 1:19:18 could have just kept choking me until I was I was tall. If I did, I did get 1:19:24 choked until I was unconscious. I don`t know, as many as half a dozen times, maybe more. 1:19:29 Yeah. You know, uh, so that`s the type of thing that he would do worse, you know. Um, I believe 1:19:39 I wouldn`t swear to this, but I believe that on that instance they had told my 1:19:45 dad had told him, "Hey, you can`t bust him up. You can`t break stuff." Um, you 1:19:51 know, because all his CPS [ __ ] Yeah. 1:19:57 So, and and I want to say I want to say he was upset at the end of that too 1:20:02 because bruising, you know, they didn`t bones or anything. Uh, 1:20:08 but you know, obviously I had bruising around my neck and different bruises on my body and and uh 1:20:16 that`s something else too that that I`m just remembering right now as I`m talking to you. At least one instance, 1:20:23 the school nurse uh got CPS involved, I believe. Yeah. 1:20:29 In both Tennessee and Alabama because of the bruises that I showed up to school 1:20:34 with. Yeah. You know, of course, my parents just said, "Hey, he`s clumsy. You know, he 1:2